Original topic:

Was the Uncompressed RAW feature been removed?

(Topic created: 01-27-2024 12:18 PM)
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UltimaGaina
Cosmic Ray
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Galaxy S24
Can someone clarify why the Samsung S20 series (including S24U) stopped generating uncompressed RAW files sometime in Q1 2023?
 
In Pro mode, we now have JPEG compression in a DNG container. It is a 12-bit JPEG.
 
Expert RAW has the same JPEG compression (on 16 bits, probably because of HDR) for S22U and S23U, while on S24U it shows as "Unknown (52546)" compression. According to an article I found on Samsung India, it is said that this is a new JPEG XL compression.
 
Why not offer the option to get again (as we had before Q1 2023) truly uncompressed mosaiced RAW, which works with the Lightroom Denoise AI algorithm, instead of the current demosaiced compressed Linear RAW, which doesn't.
 
92 Replies
rawshooter
Galaxy
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Galaxy S24

Because Pro Mode offers a real raw, and ExpertRAW is a heavily processed something that since the S22U always looked like a heavily compressed jpg in darker areas with color banding.

Edit: Wrong, I was unaware they messed up ProMode RAW in 2023.

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UltimaGaina
Cosmic Ray
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Galaxy S24

Unfortunately, since Q1 2023, the Pro mode started to generate RAW by embedding a JPEG-compressed photo in a DNG container. Just use an Exif viewer and check it for yourself. 🤨

rawshooter
Galaxy
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Galaxy S24

But still it behaves more like a raw file that the output of the so called ExpertRAW.

ProMode still gives me clean noise when raising the shadows, ExpertRAW just shows compression artifacts.

UltimaGaina
Cosmic Ray
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Galaxy S24
Of course. Expert RAW is anything but RAW. It looks like Expert RAW has now switched to JPEG XL compression for S24, instead of JPEG used by the previous phones. But with files of only 5-6MB or so (for 12Mpix), they obviously implemented that sub-par "visual lossless" compression, instead of true lossless. Why they don't offer a true uncompressed RAW options for those who don't have a storage capacity concern is beyond understanding.1706971069652.jpg
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rawshooter
Galaxy
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Galaxy S24

DNG lossy compression is not a bad thing as such, as it usually does not result in any visual difference and can reach some great compression levels if the images are not too noisy (noise is detail that is preserved, and a lot of details means less compression).

In fact I use Lightroom to compress my ProMode dngs as this does not result in a loss of detail.

ExpertRAW showed the same issues before they forced us to use compressed files (it was an option on the S22u and S23U).

An uncompressed option will not solve anything, those files always looked bad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyS22/comments/tpitko

ExpertRaw is a complete scam.

Removing real raw from ProMode is sad.

UltimaGaina
Cosmic Ray
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Galaxy S24
Yes, I read that reddit post before.
Pro mode switched from uncompressed RAW to JPEG compressed DNGs sometime in Q1 2023, after the firmware upgrade which added that Expert RAW link inside the stock camera app. See below the exif for DNGs shot before and after than infamous update:Camera-Pro-old-and-new_1000002743_1706973381.jpg
rawshooter
Galaxy
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Galaxy S24

And sadly no one cares. I wish I was friends with some big phone/photography influencer to pick up on that topic.

UltimaGaina
Cosmic Ray
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Galaxy S24
The worst is that the switch away from uncompressed RAW was SILENT, undocumented. I left comments with some Youtubers, I even raised a ticket with Samsung last summer, after I noticed the switch. The Samsung technician I talked to ackowledged the problem, promised to bring it forward with the developers and even promised to come back to me with info about the solution.
Needless to say that nothing happened.
rawshooter
Galaxy
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Galaxy S24

Which Exif Viewer do you use? I can't find those in Lightroom.

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